I have recently inherited my parents wood/canvas old town canoe. I believe it was purchased in the late 1930's but I don't know if they bought it new or used. We have found the number 18 172 in it and I am hoping it is the serial number. Is there someone at wcha who could research this and let me know about this canoe? I would greatly appreciate it. It has sponsons and oar locks. I could email some pictures as well. Donald
Need help Identifying old town canoe
- Thread starter Donald
- Start date
Al Sienkiewicz
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Donald: Please check both stems to verify the serial number for your canoe. As a guide, an Old Town canoe built in the late 1930's should have a serial number in the 120,000 - xx to 130,000 - xx range where xx represents the length. If you could measure the length that would be helpful as well as any other "accessories" like the sponsons you mentioned.
- Al
- Al
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hello Donald. I see Al has replied to you, but I'll send this along too even if we're saying the same things.
The number you found may be the serial number, but only a portion of it. Old Town serial numbers are five or six digits, a space, and two digits which are the canoe's length. So, "18" may be the length of your canoe and you may have to do some more digging to find another number or two.
The serial number appears on the stem on the floor of the canoe at each end-- sometimes one end is better than the other and it's nice to be able to compare.
It sometimes is necessary to work at bringing the numbers up (but without damaging the canoe). Wetting with paint thinner can help. Or you could do a rubbing--- place paper over the stem and go over the back of it with soft pencil or crayon or charcoal. A digital picture will sometimes see what the eye cannot. Or you can post a picture here, and several eyes may form a consensus. If one or two numbers aren't clear, we can check several records until we find the one that fits your boat.
Pictures are always nice to see. If they're in your computer, you can post them in this forum. Scroll down, below the box you type into, and you'll see "manage attachments" in the second box below this. Click on that to get a browse window and you can select the views you want us to see.
It's very cool that you have "the family canoe", creating happy memories for successive generations.
Kathy
The number you found may be the serial number, but only a portion of it. Old Town serial numbers are five or six digits, a space, and two digits which are the canoe's length. So, "18" may be the length of your canoe and you may have to do some more digging to find another number or two.
The serial number appears on the stem on the floor of the canoe at each end-- sometimes one end is better than the other and it's nice to be able to compare.
It sometimes is necessary to work at bringing the numbers up (but without damaging the canoe). Wetting with paint thinner can help. Or you could do a rubbing--- place paper over the stem and go over the back of it with soft pencil or crayon or charcoal. A digital picture will sometimes see what the eye cannot. Or you can post a picture here, and several eyes may form a consensus. If one or two numbers aren't clear, we can check several records until we find the one that fits your boat.
Pictures are always nice to see. If they're in your computer, you can post them in this forum. Scroll down, below the box you type into, and you'll see "manage attachments" in the second box below this. Click on that to get a browse window and you can select the views you want us to see.
It's very cool that you have "the family canoe", creating happy memories for successive generations.
Kathy
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Say Hello to Sarah!
It's always a bit more fun when you discover a canoe's original name! I hope this record fits your canoe-- if not, we can try again.
Old Town 74172 is an 18 foot AA grade HW model, built with red Western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales and mahogany seats/thwarts/decks. She was fitted with a keel and full length bang plate and painted dark red, with the name "Sarah" in gold. She was shipped to K.S. Shimen in Neteong, New Jersey on April 5, 1923.
A scan of this record is attached below. Scans of approximately 210,000 records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. Additional information about the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details.
If you haven't already done so, please join WCHA or make a tax deductible contribution so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA, http://www.wcha.org/wcha_video.php to watch a 10 minute video about WCHA and our programs and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join.
Kathy
It's always a bit more fun when you discover a canoe's original name! I hope this record fits your canoe-- if not, we can try again.
Old Town 74172 is an 18 foot AA grade HW model, built with red Western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales and mahogany seats/thwarts/decks. She was fitted with a keel and full length bang plate and painted dark red, with the name "Sarah" in gold. She was shipped to K.S. Shimen in Neteong, New Jersey on April 5, 1923.
A scan of this record is attached below. Scans of approximately 210,000 records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. Additional information about the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details.
If you haven't already done so, please join WCHA or make a tax deductible contribution so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA, http://www.wcha.org/wcha_video.php to watch a 10 minute video about WCHA and our programs and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join.
Kathy
Attachments
Thanks Kathryn !
Sounds like it could be the canoe. However it must have been repainted. It's now blue and white. The name of the town it was shipped to is actually Netcong, N.J. This is where my mother grew up and my parents lived when they purchased the canoe somewhere around 1937-ish. So that leads me to believe that it is the right canoe. What does HW and AA mean?
Also, I'm in California now and the canoe is still in N.J. I would like to see it go to a good home. I do I find out how much (if anything) it might be worth? and how do I connect with someone who might want to buy it to refurbish it (or Sarah, that is - I guess I should use the canoe's proper name now that I know what it is)?
Sounds like it could be the canoe. However it must have been repainted. It's now blue and white. The name of the town it was shipped to is actually Netcong, N.J. This is where my mother grew up and my parents lived when they purchased the canoe somewhere around 1937-ish. So that leads me to believe that it is the right canoe. What does HW and AA mean?
Also, I'm in California now and the canoe is still in N.J. I would like to see it go to a good home. I do I find out how much (if anything) it might be worth? and how do I connect with someone who might want to buy it to refurbish it (or Sarah, that is - I guess I should use the canoe's proper name now that I know what it is)?
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hi again, Donald--
Usually I explain terms like HW and AA-- don't know where my head was! We leave tomorrow morning for Peterborough, Ontario, and maybe that's the deal!
Old Town's HW model is the canoe designed for lakes-- so, it's believed "HW" stands for "heavy water". If sponsons are desired, it's the model most likely to have them... and the same goes for sailing and rowing. The lines of the HW resemble the Otca-- so, Sarah isn't a plain-Jane.
There's a good discussion of value here: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=57
Sounds like your canoe is fairly original (not been worked over and changed)-- canvas replacement and paint and varnish are routine maintenance.
There are three places where I look at canoes-- maybe others here have more suggestions. The first is our own WCHA classifieds, which may be found through the main page of this website. Ads there stay up for a long time. I also look at eBay and craigslist.
You've made a very good start finding your canoe a new home-- you know what it is (even know its name). An old canoe deserves to have its history go along with it. We try to get the history of each of our boats-- who paddled them, and where. Buyers may appreciate the canoe even more when they know its history.
Best of luck--
Kathy
Usually I explain terms like HW and AA-- don't know where my head was! We leave tomorrow morning for Peterborough, Ontario, and maybe that's the deal!
Old Town's HW model is the canoe designed for lakes-- so, it's believed "HW" stands for "heavy water". If sponsons are desired, it's the model most likely to have them... and the same goes for sailing and rowing. The lines of the HW resemble the Otca-- so, Sarah isn't a plain-Jane.
There's a good discussion of value here: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=57
Sounds like your canoe is fairly original (not been worked over and changed)-- canvas replacement and paint and varnish are routine maintenance.
There are three places where I look at canoes-- maybe others here have more suggestions. The first is our own WCHA classifieds, which may be found through the main page of this website. Ads there stay up for a long time. I also look at eBay and craigslist.
You've made a very good start finding your canoe a new home-- you know what it is (even know its name). An old canoe deserves to have its history go along with it. We try to get the history of each of our boats-- who paddled them, and where. Buyers may appreciate the canoe even more when they know its history.
Best of luck--
Kathy
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
AA Grade
Okay, I forgot it again!
AA is Old Town's designation for "top grade", which usually means the canoe was trimmed in mahogany, as was yours-- seats, thwarts, decks, and rails are mahogany (sometimes the rails on AA grade are spruce). I say "usually" because a customer could probably special-order something else, like birdseye maple... which I haven't personally seen on an Old Town, but generally the old canoe companies were open to what the customer wanted. Mahogany is the usual wood species for AA grade, however.
The other grade is "CS" or "common sense", where not-as-fancy hardwoods that are still very attractive are used... ash and birch, for instance.
There's also a GS or "guide special" grade seen on the guide canoes... this can involve oak trim.
Kathy
Okay, I forgot it again!
AA is Old Town's designation for "top grade", which usually means the canoe was trimmed in mahogany, as was yours-- seats, thwarts, decks, and rails are mahogany (sometimes the rails on AA grade are spruce). I say "usually" because a customer could probably special-order something else, like birdseye maple... which I haven't personally seen on an Old Town, but generally the old canoe companies were open to what the customer wanted. Mahogany is the usual wood species for AA grade, however.
The other grade is "CS" or "common sense", where not-as-fancy hardwoods that are still very attractive are used... ash and birch, for instance.
There's also a GS or "guide special" grade seen on the guide canoes... this can involve oak trim.
Kathy
