What did I just bring home: help with ID on this canoe, please.

[ticonderoga]

I just picked up this canoe because it was different than others that I have seen or restored. Aside from the custom seats and fiberglass job, it has some unique features that I haven't seen before, that I hope will help to identify it. Heart shaped decks made of cherry, closed gunwales with the inner rabbited to accept the rib tops, all the planking is 2 1/2" wide except to top row below the decks which is 7 1/2", the stem is splayed like a Morris but not as wide( only 17/8") and the ribs are 5/16 thick, 2"wide and spaced 2" apart, that taper to 1". The length is 15', 33" wide and 111/2 " deep. The ends are 24" tall. The best that I can tell, the gunnels and stems are oak.. I have not found any markings, serial numbers anywhere. The one thwart is located in front of the stern seat, but not in the center of the canoe. It looks to be a well built canoe and will be a good looking what ever it turns out to be. Thanks for any info you may have . Joe

 

[Michael Grace]

Hi Joe,

It certainly has the look of a Rushton Indian (not Indian Girl) - the stem, the closed "double gunwale" construction in cherry, the wider decks, the particular heart-shaped deck cutout, and the stem profile. Your stripping job shows some beautiful wood, so despite the 'glass, it looks like you found a nice canoe. Please keep us posted on progress.

Michael

 

[ticonderoga]

Hi Joe,

It certainly has the look of a Rushton Indian (not Indian Girl) - the stem, the closed "double gunwale" construction in cherry, the wider decks, the particular heart-shaped deck cutout, and the stem profile. Your stripping job shows some beautiful wood, so despite the 'glass, it looks like you found a nice canoe. Please keep us posted on progress.

Michael

Thanks for the info! How can I find out if it truly is an Indian? Is there tell tale marks etc? I've only ever heard of Indian girls, are there more Indians and what is the main difference between the two? Thanks

 

[Paul Miller]

Hi Joe,

You hit the jack pot!

No doubt in my mind she is an Indian and one of 2 wood canvas versions we know of.

The deck, stem, gunnels, thwart are spot on. The seat has been replaced. The sheer at the ends is also perfect. She should be 15' long.

My Indian does not have any markings on either stem. Keep in mind these were the very first wood/canvas canoes that Rushton made, and only in the year 1900.

When you remove the glass you should find a number penciled on the plank at all 4 corners. Mine has the number "4" on it.

Great find, pics of mine attached.

Paul

 

[Michael Grace]

Perfect timing, Paul! I was scouring my files for info on your w/c Indian - the only other one I know. While searching I got the message that you had replied to a thread... must have been this one! Great info Paul, and great canoe Joe.

Michael

 

[Paul Miller]

Hi Joe,

I did notice someone probably cut down the tip of the stem. You will see how mine comes up above the deck. This was the same stem tip Rushton used on all his All Wood canoes and boats.

I'm sure the previous restorer just cut it down or it wore off.

I also notice you did say the canoe was 15', that was the only length the Indian was built.

Rushton's don't get more rare than the wood canvas Indian.

Super canoe,

Paul

Had to attach my picture of the Grandchildren of James Fenimore Cooper paddling the Indian and a 17' Indian Girl in the Adirondacks, in the early 20's.

 

[ticonderoga]

Rushton!

Hi Joe,

I did notice someone probably cut down the tip of the stem. You will see how mine comes up above the deck. This was the same stem tip Rushton used on all his All Wood canoes and boats.

I'm sure the previous restorer just cut it down or it wore off.

I also notice you did say the canoe was 15', that was the only length the Indian was built.

Rushton's don't get more rare than the wood canvas Indian.

Super canoe,

Paul

Had to attach my picture of the Grandchildren of James Fenimore Cooper paddling the Indian and a 17' Indian Girl in the Adirondacks, in the early 20's.

Thanks Paul for the great info! I thought it looked different and would be a unique canoe but not that unique. I think i'll move it from under the deck to inside the garage! Once I begin restoration, I'm sure I'll have many questions that need to be answered, so I'll post them and my progress here. Paul, would you know where the photo's were taken in the Adirondacks, because my canoe came from one of the great camps near Old Forge. Once again thanks for the info and beautiful job on your Indian. Joe

 

[Paul Miller]

Hi Joe,

I purchased the two canoes from the Granddaughter of Robert Pruyn the builder of Camp Santanoni on Newcomb Lake. Pruyn was an Albany banker with famous friends. I have a book about the camp and visited it when I was at an Assembly a few years ago. It is currently a New York State Park. Teddy Roosevelt visited the camp while Governor of New York along with a number of other influential people of the time.

Henry Squires was a friend and club member of Roberts and that is who he purchased the canoes from. The front deck of my Indian has the Henry C. Squires & Son's medallion. I have attached a picture as well as better one showing more of the inside of the canoe.

Good luck,

Paul

 

[ticonderoga]

Rushton Indian

Hi Joe,

I purchased the two canoes from the Granddaughter of Robert Pruyn the builder of Camp Santanoni on Newcomb Lake. Pruyn was an Albany banker with famous friends. I have a book about the camp and visited it when I was at an Assembly a few years ago. It is currently a New York State Park. Teddy Roosevelt visited the camp while Governor of New York along with a number of other influential people of the time.

Henry Squires was a friend and club member of Roberts and that is who he purchased the canoes from. The front deck of my Indian has the Henry C. Squires & Son's medallion. I have attached a picture as well as better one showing more of the inside of the canoe.

Good luck,

Paul

Paul, thanks for the great info on the history of your boat. You've set a high bar for me in terms of your restoration. I'll give the Indian the restoration it deserves. Joe

 

[ticonderoga]

Hi Paul, I am at the stage in my restoration of the Rushton Indian where I am doing some work on the stems. As shown on my photos earlier, the stem tips have been cut/worn/ removed at the level of the decks. You have shown in one of your photos the they extend past the deck. Could you give me the dimensions and picture of the profile. Being a distinguishing feature I want to get it right. Thanks for your help, Joe

 

[MGC]

The stems on the newer IG's do not run up over the decks that way...how you deal with them depends upon whether or not you have an Inc. vintage boat or an earlier one. The Inc. boat inwales sit on a cut on both sides of the stem and the narrowed stem tip comes up in front of the deck tip but sits flush.

 

[Paul Miller]

Hi Joe,

Sorry for the very late reply, issue with getting pics and then logging on.

Attached are two pics, one with a ruler to show dimension. The tip is very similar to the stem tip of the all wood canoes Rushton built.

 

[ticonderoga]

Thanks Paul for the pictures, they will help me to "get it right". Are the stem bands that you have original to the boat, because I have seen many different styles on other early Rushtons. What type of wood are your gunnels, they look a lot lighter than the ones on mine which are red oak. Mine might just be aged and weathered a lot more. Thanks so much for the time you take in answering my questions ( I'm sure there will be more as I progress ) Joe

 

[Paul Miller]

I'm not sure if the stem bands are original. The early ones on the Nomad were flat stock but the wood canvas canoes he built had the oval ones.

The gunnels are white oak, no one used red oak. So as you say the ones you have may have aged and darkened.