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OT records search 108852

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by Norm Hein, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    Could you please see if this has a build sheet. It is supposed to be a 16' OTCA
     
  2. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The Old Town canoe with serial number 108852 is a 16 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, Otca model with red Western cedar planking, open oak gunwales, oak decks, oak thwarts, oak seats, half ribs, a keel, and outside stems. It was built between January and March, 1931. The original exterior paint color was turkey red. It shipped in April 9th, 1931 to Ann Arbor, Michigan. There was a previous request for a copy of this build record in May, 1975 from Ann Arbor, Michigan as shown on the back side of this record. Scans showing both sides of this build record can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below.

    108852.jpg 108852-b.jpg

    These scans and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will contribute, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to renew.

    It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Feel free to reply if you have any other questions.

    Benson
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    Thanks Benson.
    I pick it up Saturday!
     
  4. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    Que pasa? I thought we steered you towards a 50 pounder….
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    Oh I’m still looking for one. I’ve got the fever.....
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    These we “close” to me. Only a six hour drive one way. Everything else I have found is up in canoe country, the northeast. There were two canoes in the deal. The second one is shorter and unidentafied by the seller. So maybe it’s a 50 ponder. I’ll post pictures of it when I get it home and see if you all can help me figure out what it is.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    I brought this canoe home yesterday. It is in overall good restoreable condition with a few questionable repairs that will have to be corrected and a couple of new repairs to be done.
    There are a couple of things I need help understanding though.
    First off it has no center thwart. It has a wide one to the stern.
    OT OTCA 16' Stern Thwart.JPG

    The bow set has an extra (thwart) butted up to it.
    OT OTCA 16' Stern seat.JPG
    There are holes that show it had two more keels running along side of the center keel. The center keel is on the canoe the other two are gone.
    OT OTCA 16' Keel.JPG
    So the whole set up looks like this:
    OT OTCA 16' Top View.JPG
    Was this set up for sailing or something??? There are no holes where a center thwart would have been.
    Any input you all have on it would be most appreciated.

    I can't identify the other canoe I got in this deal. I'll post it in another thread and see what you think.

    Thanks,
    Norm
     
  8. monkitoucher

    monkitoucher Canoe Curious

    There looks like there are a bunch of goodies on that canoe that the build record doesn't cover (half ribs, carry thwarts, etc.). Also, if it were a 31 OTCA wouldn't it have the combed decks? Could it be the correct build record?


    Thinking that those thwarts were used for seatbacks.

    [​IMG]

    Whatever it is, it looks pretty special.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  9. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    I agree that this build record doesn't seem like a great match for this canoe. The records for 103352, 103852, and 108352 aren't much better. Are there any holes in the ribs along the sides to indicate that it once had sponsons? Can you provide some pictures of the serial numbers from each end? Thanks,

    Benson
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  10. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    It could very well be different. The seller gave me the number. He also said the were no broken or cracked ribs. He was off a couple of numbers there to. I will check it out tonight.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  11. Fitz

    Fitz Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    As mentioned above, it has hand carry thwarts - maybe a Carleton number?
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    I tried to take a picture of the number but it's to dark right now. Both ends have the same number 108852 16.
    The number one in 108852 on both ends is not near as clear as the number one in the 16(ft) It doesn't really look like a 7 though. Does the 7 stamp come straight down or does it look like the 7 in this text?
    So what would 708852 get us? Here is a clear shot of the deck to help age it.
    deck.JPG
     
  13. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Old Town issued serial number 500,000 in 1995 and their millionth serial number was issued in 2003 so 708852 was probably issued around 1999. They stopped keeping paper records in the early 1990s so there isn't an easy way to verify this. Your canoe looks much more than twenty years old. The image at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/41135/ may help you distinguish between a seven and a one. The Carleton serial numbers stop at 20540 and their bow carry thwarts were usually curved. It appears that this canoe has had many repairs so it may be difficult to determine what is original.

    Benson
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  14. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    It appears that this canoe has had many repairs so it may be difficult to determine what is original.
    Benson[/QUOTE]

    I would have to agree with you Benson. With the numbers matching at both ends I believe it is the OT OTCA. The inwales looks newer than the rest of the canoe so I believe that when it was worked on they replaced them and set it up as they wanted it. Nonetheless I like the canoe and look forward to restoring it with the changes that were made-except for the additional keels.

    Thanks for the help,
    Norm
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    Mostly just out of curiosity I removed one of the outside stems today. It is missing about 3" at the deck. I figure I'll splice it instead of replacing the whole thing. My question is, is it common for the back of the outside stems to to be concave?
    IMG_2393.JPG IMG_2396.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  16. Fitz

    Fitz Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    In my experience with Old Towns, yes. It makes a good place for the canvas seam and bedding compound.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Norm Hein

    Norm Hein Canoe Codger

    Thanks Fitz. So when constructing a new stem I could see the benefits and detriments of cutting the cove before bending or after.
    Silly question but does anyone have an opinion on which method is best?
     

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