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Need help identify Canoe brand, model and age of my wooden beauty!

Discussion in 'Research and History' started by Supermario, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Dear fellow canoeists, I'm pretty new to the WCHA, and wish I knew much longer ago of your existence, it might would have made my live in rebuilding that quite old wooden canoe perhaps a bit easier...never the less, here I am and need your help in identifying it's brand and model and perhaps its age as well. I'm at home in Switzerland, so I don't know wether it's a European brand, but most likely I would guess it's northern American/Canada built? There is no number or name plates or tags to be seen unfortunately. I restored it 20 years ago and by that time it was in quit a bad shape and covered in a thick layer of paint. So I removed it all, repaired some of it's ribs and planks and covered it with a few layers of clear fibres and epoxy (sorry if that might offend some of the hardcore builders among us..I did not know better by then...). Things that are quite characteristic, that might help for identification are the two quite large upper sections (decks) of the bow and stern made of Mahogany (I guess?), the Gunwale that is "solid" means completely closed, not broken by the ribs as on other models. There once was a very small keel (app. 1/2" or so) at the bottom, which I removed during renovation for better maneuverability. The Center Yoke was gone from the beginning, so that was not replaced by a new one. The two original seats where made of grating style wood. We lost them once we capsized on a ww river (I know stupid idea...but now I'm paddling lakes instead), and were replaced by me with grating style new ones that look very similar, although the original ones were more arrow shaped gratings, the new ones are just square (easier for me to produce...). One thing that is still original is the wooden backrest for one of the seats, was most likely for the inactive passenger (that's why I could only guess that it might have been built in the early 1900's ?). The brass flag pole holder and rope support seem to me original or at least the same age as the canoe. The name on the side was given by me, so don't take this as a hint or any brand or model name...the stem bands were both replaced with two stainless steel ones, if there were old ones they were either rusty steel ones or brass ones that were in bad shape. That's more or less it about the history and what I can tell you about it's restoration I did. Hope that info helps and the attached pictures might find some of you experts knowing more about it. With that knowledge I would like to add in the future decals or plates etc. to it again, so it would look as original again as it might once has been (ok, no repainting...I like the wooden look to much...). Thank you for your time and help! Great to be part of such a nice fellowship to take care of such precious pieces of craftsmanship. Cheers from Switzerland, Mario P1020943.jpg P1020913.jpg IMG-7126.jpg IMG-7122.jpg thumbnail_IMG-7110.jpg thumbnail_IMG-7742.jpg
     
    Dave Wermuth likes this.
  2. Pook

    Pook Chestnut Canoe fan

    Welcome aboard Supermario!
    Great looking canoe, and while I may have reservations about fibreglass covering, you have preserved the boat and, more importantly to me, you are actively using it!
    I can't help with identification but suggest that perhaps more information might assist others: length, width, depth of hull and width, thickness and spacing of ribs.
    There are extremely knowledgeable and helpful enthusiasts on this site!

    Love the canoe racks on the Tesla too! Your rack spacing looks even shorter than on my BMW 330....

    Cheers and welcome aboard!

    Bruce
     
  3. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Especially with roof-top cross bars so close together, you should use gunwale brackets on the cross bars --

    [​IMG]

    and you should have lines the bow (and stern) of the canoe --
    IMG_0580_1 sm.jpg ssssm 100_1073.JPG
    unless you restrict your car-topping to local streets at speeds less than 30 mph /48 kph. It would be a shame to have that beautiful canoe come loose because of a sudden gust of a cross wind or buffeting from a passing truck (not to mention damage to your nice car as the canoe gets loose).

    Tie downs and brackets take little time and little money.

    Reading the following discussions should be instructive:

    http://forums.wcha.org/index.php?threads/tie-down-points-on-a-chestnut.14986/
    http://forums.wcha.org/index.php?threads/foam-blocks-and-tying-on-to-top-of-a-car.15623/#post-78781

    Happy paddling and happy car-topping.
     
  4. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    All horizontal planking and double rib tacks on the visible end suggest Racine.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hi Bruce, thank you for the warm welcome! I'll go down to the garage to deliver some measurements later on, makes sense to provide as much info as possible! Like to be able to use the canoe as well, but only lake trips or very calm rivers...

    Thats correct, the rack spacing looks little, can't move that since it's fixed with screws to the roof...perhaps looks anyhow a bit odd, since the Tesla is almost 5m in length, quite a beast for European measures...

    Happy to be here and have nice knowledgeable folks around!

    Cheers, Mario
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hi Greg, thank you for the good hint. No worries, I would not let the Old Moose sit on top the Car without brackets on the rails. As they ate mounted inside, they can't be seen on that pic. Since the canoe is quite wide in the middle it was anyway not possible to mount the blocks from the outer side, so I changed direction and mounted them inside, that keeps the canoe in it's place! The tie down makes sense and will be done next summer as well to give it more stability-very good point!

    Thank you and kind regards, Mario
     
  7. Michael Grace

    Michael Grace Lifetime Member

    Mario - Your canoe looks like it may have had quite a bit of work done on it in the past, so some of the parts may not be original. The seats are very unusual, not at all typical of those seen on American-made cedar-canvas canoes; neither is the way they are mounted. The trim at the edges of the decks is also very unusual. Finally, the rib spacing is wider than it typically seen canoes from most major American builders, and the rib shape seems unusual. So it's possible that this is from an obscure builder, a builder elsewhere (possibly Europe), and/or it's seen considerable change since it was originally built. Sorry to be unable to provice more specific information.

    Michael
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thank you Gil, can't find much about Racine, even on the WCHA Homepage, will check it out further. I'll post some more pics and the measurements in the next Post (have to make the translation from cm to inch first ;-)...!) Greets, Mario
     
  9. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    A very clever idea -- one that I am filing away for future use.

    Greg
     
    Supermario likes this.
  10. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Alright, thank you already for your help so far, hope to get some more quotes to nail it down...the measurements are:

    Length: 510 cm (16.73 foot)
    Width: 97 cm (38.2")
    Depth: 30 cm (11.81")
    Ribs Thickness: 3-4.5 cm (1.18"-1.77")
    Ribs Spacing: 6-7 cm (2.36"-2.75")
    Deck length Bow: 74 cm (29.13")
    Deck length Stern: 78 cm (30.7")

    Hope that helps even further? Perhaps I might find some pics from before the restoration...but for now I attach some more Details from the canoe. Sorry quality is not the best, since taken in the garage with low light! What I forgot, is that the seats are just pushed in between the two wooden guide rails and are kept in place (to be seen on one of the pics). The Yoke is missing, but the supports are still visible in the centerline. There are four attachment ring brackets mounted in total, two on the bow and stern each to secure luggage, can be seen on one of the pics as well. I guess that's for now with more details! Enjoy the weekend and keep on paddling, Mario
    Bow.jpg Bow Deck.jpg Bow Deck and Gunwale Detail.jpg Bow Seat Rails.jpg Bow Thwart and Attachment Ring Detail.jpg Stern.jpg Stern Deck.jpg Yoke Support Centerline.jpg
     
  11. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

  12. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Here is the planking pattern on a Racine that I did. There is no double tack on the can’t ribs.
     

    Attached Files:

    Supermario likes this.
  13. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

  14. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thank you Dave. But the rest so far looks more familiar to mine that any other canoe i have seen before I have to admit! Any more pics of the finished canoe. I guess that the Gunwale is closed on top and on the outer side as well? More Detail pics of the decks?

    Thank you, Mario
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hi Michael,

    I almost missed your post, sorry! The mounting of the seats I have not seen on any other canoes so far, but there is not much wooden canoes in my neighborhood either to compare it with I'm afraid...The quite long decks are a bit unusual from what I've seen with other canoes too, so perhaps you might be right, that it's from another builder (I like the obscure theory), or a european? Have to look up if I can find the pics from when I first got it and before I removed the painting and canvas...

    Mario
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Dear All, I finally found the pics that were taken 1996 when I got the canoe and did start with the restoration...2 planks in the middle had to be replaced and the whole hull was grinded, perhaps some more info might help with those pictures? Thanks, Mario

    IMG-7814.jpg IMG-7816.jpg IMG-7817.jpg IMG-7818.jpg IMG-7819.jpg IMG-7820.jpg IMG-7821.jpg IMG-7822.jpg IMG-7823.jpg IMG-7824.jpg
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

  18. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Mario,
    This canoe had sponsons and open riveted gunwales. Here are a bunch of pics.
    If yours is a Racine, it will likely have a typical lobed short deck in the support brackets under the long decks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    Supermario likes this.
  19. OP
    OP
    Supermario

    Supermario Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Wow Dave, a real Museum piece! Thanks a lot for sharing these pics!
     

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