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Morris Id Plate

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Howie, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    As I reported earlier I've been given a Morris to restore. But it lacks an identifying plate/badge/decal that says 'MORRIS'. Did they have such a thing? If so can someone send me a nice jpeg (high res if possible) so I can make a simulation of one from a decal I'll print up. And tell me where it was located as well. If they used plates or badges I'm thinking I'd place the decal on a piece of metal shaped like the original. Won't fool anybody but it could look nice. Did that with a Carleton once. I think Morris also made tags/badges that held the serial # but I don't want to make a fake one of those.
    20181018_183122.jpg 20181016_112938.jpg
     
  2. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

  3. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    Howie, have you done due diligence to rough date it? Granted, without the SN tag it's a bit more challenging but to pick the correct decal you need to get into a a date range.
    Except for a few very very old boats, metal maker tags never appear on Morris canoes. They should have a decal.
    I have a deck here with the original decal if you want to check it out or I can send you pictures. And, Dan's site has a very complete display of the decals.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Don't think there's much I can do to date the canoe. Based on the pics I posted Benson opined that it might be a Model C. Other than that I have no clue. Nor does the previous owner. As I recall, it, along with two other w/c canoes, came with a cottage he bought in Quebec. He said it had been stored in a 'guide shack' - the place the guide would stay overnight. And no, I know nothing of the two other canoes. Maybe I'll learn more someday - I hope I hope!

    So anyway, have a look at the pics I shared in my previous post from Oct 16 (Not A Carleton, Is It?). Maybe you can help date it. If no one has an ideas I'll take the best image available...

    Hey - never mind! I just checked the WCHA 'store'. I can get a real decal there! Cool. Doh!
     
  5. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    So you have heart shaped decks, 3 cat ribs, massive deck bling, closed rails...are the any tag holes in the inside rail or stems? And remember...rivets, not screws!
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    One end of the inner rails appears to have no holes for a tag. The other end is partially covered by thin wood strips which, along with the (I assume) replace outer rails hide cracks(s) in the inner rails. Said wood strips hide the inner rail in this area so I can't see if there are nail holes in that area until I tear into it next year.

    Where would a decal go? The decks seem original and are un-decal'd. Besides there is seemingly no room for one. Gotta lose those sky-hook eye-bolts soon. And the fat stem end seems too small for a decal too.
    20181016_111045.jpg 20181016_112915.jpg
     
  7. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Right in the middle as shown below.

    Benson


    Morris.jpg
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Oooo.... Looking at my deck pics above do you think that the eye-bolts & diamond escutcheon plates are original? The plate does look to be brass, and seems to be the same shape as shown in your pic. Maybe the plate is original & someone plopped an eye-bolt through it? Though the hole in your pis'c plate looks bigger than the hole in mine. In any case its placement doesn't seem to leave any place for a decal as shown in your pic. Of course I can always reposition it when restoring.
     
  9. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Your brass diamond appears to be much wider than the diamond plate of an original Morris flagcstaff socket.

    A flagstaff socket, being quite narrow, fits readily far forward in the deck -- I'm not at all sure that your item would fit forward enough to leave space for a decal.

    See pp. 30 and 31 of the 191 Morris catalog, which shows the size of the flagstaff socket (and its plate) -- item 32 -- in relation to an original painter ring -- item 33. Your eye bolt plate appears to be bigger than an original painter ring, as well as being a different shape.

    PAGE-30.jpg
    PAGE-31.jpg

    Here is a picture of the remains of another original Morris deck -- note the socket, decal remnant, and a mending plate that was a poor attempt to repair the split deck -- on a guess, that mending plate is probably about the width of your eye-bolt plate.
    100_1915.JPG

    Another consideration -- I have seen quite a few pictures that indicate that the heart-shaped Morris decks are prone to split -- I'm not sure that drilling another hole in your deck would help matters in that regard.

    That canoe has clearly been repainted -- it seems to me likely that the deck was refinished, perhaps when that eye bolt was installed -- and the original decal may have been removed in anticipation of the installation of a plate that would cover it.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Greg - thanks for the info & pics. So it seems likely that my brass plate isn't original. I assume these flagstaff plates were ordered an an option & mine simply didn't have one when it came from the factory.

    And thanks for the tip about the decks being susceptible to splitting. I'll deal with that from the underside somehow.
     
  11. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    If it ain't split by now, it ain't gonna be anytime soon...one would think.
    Back to your decal....your boat has three cant ribs so if you subscribe to Kathryn's logic (no reason not to) your boat would be post 05 and if the tag holes are on the inside rail, between 05 and 10 so the decal should be this one:
    http://www.wcha.org/content/bn-morris-deck-decal-canvas-canoes-rowboats-and-equipments Look on the inside rail close to the deck.

    If the tag holes are on the stem then it after 10...so the decal should be this one:
    http://www.wcha.org/store/bn-morris-deck-decal-canvas-paddleing-motor-canoes He came out with a motorized craft in 1910.
    Balls in your court to find the tag holes!
     
  12. Craig Allen

    Craig Allen Curious about Wooden Canoes

    The black and white photo posted by Benson was my 1917 Morris. The bow and stern flagstaff plates are original and are brass and nickel plated. My grandfather owned a 1917 Morris and the flagstaff plate doubled as a socket for a battery powered electric canoe lamp.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    There are no holes in the stems, so... looks like it's door #1! Might as well take the decks off & restore them - let's see if there's something under the brass plates!
    20181016_112938.jpg 20181016_112921.jpg
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Craig - Thanks for the info. Do you have some pics of the rest of the canoe to share?
     
  15. Craig Allen

    Craig Allen Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Unfortunately I no longer have the canoe.
     
  16. Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

  17. OP
    OP
    Howie

    Howie LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Thanks.
     
  18. David Satter

    David Satter LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Howie, here's one I did myself, well a friend who does signs did it for me, I put it back in the same spot on the deck and reproduced it from what was there. If I remember correctly this was 006.JPG 1914
     
  19. Paul Scheuer

    Paul Scheuer LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Morris ID Tag.
    New information for me about dating via tag location.
    I have no tag.
    I do have what appear to be tag mounting holes in the forward stem at the splay, see pic.
    On the centerline, spaced 2 -3/16 in, fore and aft.
    Is that the proper spacing for a post-1910 Morris tag ?


    Forward Stem Holes Reduced.jpg Flag Socket Fwd Fitted WITH DECK 2.jpg Flag Socket fwd 3.jpg Flag Socket aft 3.jpg .

    Also new info on the availability of flag sockets from WCHA.
    I went creative. Carved from bronze oarlock sockets. see pics.
    Apologies to the purists.
     
  20. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

     

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