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Latex Filler Compound Available In U.s.?

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Michael J. Connelly, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Michael J. Connelly

    Michael J. Connelly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I am getting ready to canvas and fill a 16' 1958 Old Town Otca and wanted to use a latex lagging compound for the filler. I have to work in an attached garage and cannot have the lingering smell of a traditional oil based filler around for the weeks it takes to cure (I may not smell it, but the wife will and .....). Are there any sources in the U.S. for a filler similar to the Bakor or Rollins I have been reading about? Or should I find a source in Canada willing to ship it? (ouch)

    I have also read about using something called Mastic - is that the same as a lagging compound or different? Will any Mastic work, or is there a specific kind/brand that works best?

    I am a newbie to canvas canoes and appreciate all the help and expertise on the forums. I have searched the forums several different ways trying to find an answer before starting a new thread and could not find the answers. Thanks in advance for all the help.
     
  2. rbudge

    rbudge Curious about Wooden Canoes

    There is a wide-ranging discussion of filler possibilities here: http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/canvas-fillers.14814/
    I'm a fan of the pipe lagging compounds, especially Bakor 120.09. I believe it is made in the USA. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Call a local sheet metal business or a fire suppression system installer or, better yet, the business that supplies them.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Michael J. Connelly

    Michael J. Connelly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I looked up the Bakor - it is only sold in Canada. The company that carries it (Henry Co.) has offices in Canada and the US, but will only sell the Bakor lagging in Canada. Same with any sources I can find for the Robsons Mastic. I had found a 2 year old discussion on the Orca Boats YouTube channel comments page that seemed to say I could order the Robsons direct from Canada, but the shipping would be very expensive. That is why I was hoping for a domestic alternative.
     
  4. rbudge

    rbudge Curious about Wooden Canoes

  5. rbudge

    rbudge Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I nade a mistake. The product I linked to is not a hazard to the marine environment. When I wrote that, I was looking at a MSDS for Childers Chil Seal CP-50A MV2, a slightly different product. I suspect that either one would do just fine for a canoe.
     
  6. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    There is some confusion here.

    Childers makes two products that seem similar:
    CHILDERS CP-50A MV1, a/k/a CHIL-SEAL® CP-50A MV1 Coating
    and
    CHILDERS CP-50A HV2, a/k/a CHIL-SEAL® CP-50A HV2 Coating

    I cannot find a Childers Chil seal CP-50A MV2

    The link in the post above is for an MSDS that seems to be out of date.

    Both CP-50A MV1 and CP-50A HV2 have similar warnings about uses in an aquatic environment. CP-50A HV2 seems somewhat more hazardous; both direct safety measures while using/applying.

    *******************************

    For CHILDERS CP-50A MV1, a/k/a CHIL-SEAL® CP-50A MV1 Coating, there is a “Safety Data Sheet” revised 05-22-2117, superseding one dated 04-18-2117, that provides:

    GHS Signal Word: Warning
    GHS Classification: Hazardous to the aquatic environment - Acute Category 1; Hazardous to the aquatic environment - Chronic Category 2
    GHS Hazard Phrases: Very toxic to aquatic life.; Toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
    GHS Precautions:
    Safety Precautions: Avoid release to the environment.
    First Aid Measures: Collect spillage.
    Disposal: Dispose of contents/container in accordance with local/regional/national/international regulation for hazardous wastes.

    see: http://fosterproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/CP-50A-MV1-SDS-0517.pdf

    For this product there is also a “Material Safety Data Sheet” for this same product that was revisesd 8-12-2014, superseding one dated 1/05-2012. It has no warning about hazard to an acquatic environment, though it suggests protective gear for eyes, breathing and skin. Note the earlier dates. see: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...a-mv1-chil-seal-coating-and-adhesive-msds.pdf

    A description of the product can be found at: http://www.lcinsulations.com/childers cp-50a.pdf

    ***************************************

    There is an apparently similar product, CHILDERS CP-50A HV2, a/k/a CHIL-SEAL® CP-50A HV2 Coating, that has a "Safety Data Sheet," dated 06-01-2017, superseding one dated 03-08-2016, with more significant warnings:

    GHS Signal Word: Warning
    GHS Classification: Hazardous to the aquatic environment - Acute Category 1; Carcinogenicity Category 2; Hazardous to the aquatic environment - Chronic Category 2
    GHS Hazard Phrases: Suspected of causing cancer.; Very toxic to aquatic life.; Toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
    GHS Precautions:
    Safety Precautions: Obtain special instructions before use. Do not handle until all safety precautions have been read and understood. Avoid release to the environment. Wear protective gloves/protective clothing/eye protection/face protection.
    First Aid Measures: IF exposed or concerned: Get medical advice/attention. Collect spillage.
    Storage: Store locked up.
    Disposal: Dispose of contents/container in accordance with local/regional/national/ international regulation for hazardous wastes.

    I have not found an MSDS sheet, so entitled, for this product..

    For a product description, see: http://fosterproducts.com/product/cp-50a-hv2/ and click on “PDS."

    If you are thinking of using one of these products, please read the Safety Data Sheet for each in its entirety -- the C&Ps above quote only a small part of the sheets.
     
  7. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Back in the days when I did more canvas canoe restorations, I tried using Childers CP-50A (don't know which flavor). My results were less than satisfactory, so I went back to using the Merigold Method using EkoFill (formerly Cecofill).

    That, or the Old Town traditional unleaded recipe.
     
  8. rbudge

    rbudge Curious about Wooden Canoes

    And there's the voice of experience, Greg. In what way did the Childers CP50 fail, Dan? I have never laid eyes on the stuff, just went searching on Google for a product that might be similar to the Bakor 120.09. I did notice in the search results that there had been several discussions of the Childers material on the Wooden Boat forum.
     
  9. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Tough to apply smoothly, didn't sand well, and when (presumably) well cured, painted, and subsequently exposed to moisture, the filler would suck into the canvas telegraphing the weave.

    YMMV, for me, it wasn't acceptable and I went back to more tried and true methods.
     
  10. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    Latex filler? Lately I've used interior/exterior sealer/primer. I get mine from Sherwin-Williams. It can dry quickly. I mix exterior latex spackle lightweight for the last coat or two. Pro-block and pro prep are two names that come to mind. They also have a product that is caller filler and it is oil based. My mentor didn't fret as much about fillers. So, eventually I quit worrying about it. I've have traditional filler give me trouble. I know of one canoe that was successfully done by simple painting with varnish repeatedly.
     
  11. dogbrain

    dogbrain I can take this, but not much more

  12. Gary Willoughby

    Gary Willoughby Boat Builder

    Dan EKO FILL is good but the down side $198.95 per gallon.
     
  13. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    You only need two quarts for the typical canoe. Cost is not that different from traditional filler with shipping added. It is still a small cost relative to the overall investment in the project.

    With shorter curing time and consistently good results I know I can trust it. I tried Childers, don’t trust it..
     

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