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help please, filling ends

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Zach, May 12, 2005.

  1. Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    Ok, so my dad and I filled our first canoe yesterday. It was a fun experience and everything went as well as can be expected for a couple of rookies, except for the ends. When we trimmed the canvas at the ends we cut the seam toward one side of the stem as opposed to down the middle. We began building up a few layers of filler to try to hide this canvas edge, but we are now out of filler and the edge is not even close to being hidden.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to procede? I have a few things running through my head:

    - get more filler and proceed with build-up process

    - attempt to trim seam to make it run down centerline of stem, and then continue building-up of filler

    - or find some other substance to hide the seam i.e. bedding compound, epoxy-like goos


    -zach
     

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  2. anthony

    anthony Arrowslinger

    I'm new to wood/canvass but I would say you needed twice as many tacks before you started filling.(what do i know,i'm new here! :rolleyes: )
     
  3. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    For next time

    At the stems I always use a heavy bead of the exterior white carpenters glue between the 2 layers of canvas . Then final tack or staple the canvas and trim flush with the canoe side . The trimmed canvas edge should be tacky from the glue . Apply more if needed and let set for about 10 min. Now lightly tap along the canvas edge with a hammer . Properly done the canvas edge will be tough and invisable after filling and painting .
    What kind of filler ? Has the filler set ? Can you get that edge down with more staples ? This needs to be done s.a p. You may then find that carefully sanding the cured filler then building up with layers of paint , sanding as you go , will resolve your concerns . Minor problems can be solved with automotive glazing putty .
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2005
  4. OP
    OP
    Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    Thanks for the replies guys. Just to answer a few questions.


    We got our filler from Rollin and it has now been on almost 24 hours . . . we didnt put more tacks in because the new portion of the stem started to split a little.


    It sounds like get that edge flat and use more filler as soon as possible? We would have put more on last night but we ran out which was a little disheartening.

    -zach
     
  5. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Water based or alkalyd enamel based filler ? If you search the WCHA site you can find alkalyd based filler formulas which are easy to mix . You won't need much so cut the mix portions down . Use a heavy duty stapler rather than tacks too prevent the wood splitting . The sooner you do it the better .
     
  6. charvey

    charvey Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    If you use staples...make sure to use stainless steel staples.
     
  7. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Just a thought

    Although stainless is best the old manufactuers that used staples did not use stainless . We are now restoring these canoes for the first time 30 or more years later . I wish I could have A nickle for every one of these staples I've removed .
     
  8. sandpiper

    sandpiper canoe builder

    Hi everybody. You're right concerning the staples. here in Quebec, some years ago and maybe still doing it today(hope not) some builders were using them. I did a few of those canoes and everytime, the planking along the gunwales was rotten. Like you say we would be rich if we could get a nickel for every staples we remove.
    Sandpiper
     
  9. ken mueller

    ken mueller Canton, Ohio

    Zack, I've got a small amount of extra filler from my last project. Not much, maybe a cupfull or so. You're welcome to it, let me know. It's the lead based type. I don't know if there is a problem using different types on the same canvas, maybe somebody out there knows for sure. Ken.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    thanks ken (and everyone who replied). maybe someone can let me know if it would be compatable with the filler northwoods sold to me. Also i dont know how much mahogany you are looking for when you mentioned it in the other thread but i have some extra left over, maybe we could trade :)

    -zach
     
  11. John Greer

    John Greer LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Hi Zack. Have you thought about using a small amount of marine putty? Or if the seam is small you might try some auto body filler such as bondo but make sure you have a good coat of paint as a finish. You can use either and then sand flush. I've used both in the past to touch up small areas and have had no problem. This will harden much faster than continuing to apply more filler and waiting to dry.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    Hi John, I have thought about using products like that. Do you have a particular brand of the marine putty that you prefer? And is it ok to use with any kind of filler? I guess my dad's been working on it with some staples while Ive been out of town for a few days so I haven't seen what it looks like, but he tells me its getting better (many thanks for the suggestions).

    -zach
     
  13. John Greer

    John Greer LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I've used good old bondo-classic auto body filler but now am using 3M Acryl Marine Putty from Jamestown distributors. I've never used much. Just small amounts where it appears my overlap isn't smooth then sand it smooth. Seems to work fine. Don't know what the long term effect is but can always replace if need be. Good luck.
     
  14. Rollin Thurlow

    Rollin Thurlow member since 1980

    HI Zack,
    The canvas seam on the side can be quite unslightly! It sounds like you filled as best possible with the canvas filler and assuming that it is well tacked down then the best thing to do is just wait the four or five weeks for the filler to dry. The rough canvas edge can then be smmothed down with the carefull use of a wood rasp which may expose some of the raw canvas on very edge but don't worry about that, yet. Use the audo body filler to smooth out the rough spots and feather it into the hull. Small areas of thick bondo (the size of quarter)will be ok but large areas(three inches across) will crack over time, so apply accordingly. Sand smmoth with rough sandpaper, apply a second bondo coat to fill any low areas and smooth again. the area may need some extra sanding and extra coats of paint.
    The area where the canvas lap may always be a bit lumpy or thicker than the other side but you can make it so its much less noticeable than it is now!
    It will be great and the boat will float just fine!
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    Thanks Rollin slowly but surely the seem is getting better.

    I have another quick question for you guys. Is it a problem that near the ends of the canoe where the gunwales curve in the opposite way the canvas isnt touching the planking? I would say in the worst spot, I can push the canvas in maybe 1/4" before it touches the planking. Will it cause the paint to crack? and should I try to glue it down? thanks everyone.

    -zach
     
  16. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    HI Zach. that gap is usually pulled out by stretching the canvas here and there when it is first put on. After it is filled--- I don't know. I have an Old Twon with a latex filler. Kind of flexable. It has been on for oh, maybe six years or so. It does have a slight space in the bow area that doesn't lay against the hull perfect. It is not noticeable unless you touch it in just the right spot and then it can be seen to be less than a sixteenth from touch down. It floats just fine and has held up well. I don't think you shoud glue it down at all. Maybe a more experienced builder can suggest something. I think it might have to go the way it is. But, maybe you can pull the staples from an area of the gunnel and try to stretch it down a little. I wouldn't chance it but then again I don't know. What's the worst that could happen? regards, Dave.
     
  17. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    This is not unusual and should't be anything to worry about .
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Zach

    Zach WCHA 8049

    Music to my ears (or I guess eyes since I read it on a computer screen). Thanks guys.

    -zach
     

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