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found what i think is old town in a barn serial # 102827 17

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by Mark Conley, May 30, 2020.

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  1. Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    helping a widow clean out her late husbands garage she said she was sure and old canoe was in it i took pic of # i found on the wood
    if anyone could help me identify what it is that would be great because she’s looking to sell it and I would hate to see her get ripped off
    8C97924B-E9C7-4649-98CE-28E14444B22C.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Welcome, the Old Town canoe with serial number 102827 is a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, Otca model with red western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, birch decks, and a keel. It was built between September, 1929 and November, 1930. The original exterior paint color was dark red. It shipped to Hamburgh, New York. A scan of this build record can be found below.

    This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will contribute, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to join.

    It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. The information at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/57/ should help you value it. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck,

    Benson



    102827.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  3. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    WOW she thought it was possible from 50s
    however it’s not red paint it’s like a baby blue or a very light green how badly does it hurt the value ?
     
  4. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Essentially, Not at all. The odds are that your Canoe from 1930 has had his canvas replaced at least once, and in any event, repainting a canoe is considered ordinary maintenance, as is replacing the canvas when necessary.

    If the plan is to sell the canoe, I would probably not repaint. Most buyers of an older wooden canoe expect that some repairs/maintenance will be necessary, And will not be put off simply by the need to put a coat of paint on, if The canvas and existing paint are sound, A new coat or two of paint is a quick and easy job. But if the paint is unsound or the canvas is torn or otherwise not in good shape, putting a coat of paint on would generally be wasted time, money, and effort by a seller.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    what I can see it seems to be in pretty good shape the new canvas and paint makes sense my plan is is to not touch it whatsoever and just sell it as is
    so is it a canvas canoe with paint over it or is it fiberglass I’m kind of confused on how these things are made
     
  6. mccloud

    mccloud "Tiger Rag" back on the tidal Potomac

    The wood is just a framework on which canvas was stretched in 1929. Waterproofing was accomplished by applying 'canvas filler' (think oil based enamel paint with fine silica in it, and back in those days filler contained some white lead), followed by sanding, primer and paint. Like Greg says, there's a good chance that the canvas has been replaced. There is always a possibility that something other than canvas was used in a re-covering, like Dacron, or fiberglass. Most potential buyers want to do their own repair work, and many won't buy a fiberglass-covered canoe. You can get an idea about the value of a restored canoe from the canoes for sale section of this site, and there have been previous discussions of value for unrestored canoes such as http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/how-much-is-my-old-wooden-canoe-worth.57/
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    hmmmmm
    i wonder how i find out for if it’s fiberglassed
    it’s very light i would think fbg would make it heavy
     
  8. mccloud

    mccloud "Tiger Rag" back on the tidal Potomac

    If you are really curious to know, I suggest removing 5 or 6 of the screws, beginning at a tip, which hold the outwale onto the hull. Carefully pry the outwale away by only a couple inches, revealing a good view of the rib tips, where you see the top edge of the canvas where it was secured with small tacks. Determining what it is, and even its condition, should be easy. Since this portion is concealed by the outwale, you could even try to nip a fraction of an inch of the material away with a small sissors, to hold it, feel it, show to other canoe folks.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    kinda scared to touch it lol I’m going down to get the old town from her now so I’m gonna take pictures and post them
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    well after 30+ years she’s out of hiding it’s so cool to see the wood work see pics
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Michael Grace

    Michael Grace Lifetime Member

    Sure looks like fiberglass. In your next-to-last photo, the edges of the hole show fibers that look too stiff to be filled canvas. If you rap on the outside of the canoe, for example with a fingernail, canvas will produce a dull sound to it as you might expect of heavy canvas, but fiberglass will give a distinctively sharper, "harder" sound. It also seems apparent that the canoe's covering was changed at some point because it looks like there are some replaced planks in the hull (2nd and 3rd photos). There would have been no way to replace those planks without removing the original canvas (well, other than magic...). As Tom McCloud said, the canoe would have been canvassed in 1929; it looks like it was refurbished sometime later and the canvas probably replaced with fiberglass.

    Michael
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    that’s a bummer i’m guessing that just killed the value
    is even worth anything any more?
     
  13. mccloud

    mccloud "Tiger Rag" back on the tidal Potomac

    These photos confirm that it is the Old Town OTCA model, CS grade which is the build sheet that Benson posted. I agree with Michael: that certainly looks like a puncture into fiberglass. Fiberglass can be bad, or worse. If it was applied on top of canvas, then there is a chance it can be removed without too much trouble. But if the canvas was removed, then fiberglass glued onto the wood, that is really, really bad, and many folks will not touch it. Structurally, the canoe looks to be in good shape for its age, so can be restored by someone willing to put a lot of time into it. Don't send it to the dump!
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Definitely not gonna send it to the dump it is pretty solid
    but I am at a loss on what I should do with it I don’t have the skills the time or the money to restore it again I’m just trying to help a widow out with cleaning out . I don’t even know how much i should even attempt to ask for it now
     
  15. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    The link that was previously attached provides some guidance related to canoe values. A glassed canoe is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and that won't be as much for a common canoe, Old Town's being one of such. Personally I wouldn't even take it for free if it was offered simply because I do not feel that the time investment to restore is worthwhile (for me). I have restored glassed canoes and have sworn not to do any more of them. That's how I feel about it. Others are more willing to tackle the job and spend the many hours it takes to strip off the cloth, remove the old resin and dig the resin out from the planking.
    Often boats were glassed because the stems were no longer suitable for accepting tacks. It's that sort of hidden damage that makes removal even less appealing.
    If you look at the Vermont Craigslist you can find a fiber-glassed Detroit canoe that has been listed for sale for three consecutive years. The seller tries to make the case that he has restored it properly. To a collector/hobbyist a Detroit is an interesting canoe and yet three years and with his price reduced significantly the boat is still not sold.
    Whatever you offer this one for, if you really want to sell it and if you have an interested buyer that makes an offer on it...you should probably consider accepting it.
    If you have an interest in the boat for yourself and are not certain if you have the skills required to restore it (you do!) you could simply patch that hole, put a coat of varnish on it and use it. That's what I would do.
     
    Norm Hein likes this.
  16. OP
    OP
    Mark Conley

    Mark Conley Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I really don’t have a use for it and I don’t want to see it go to the dump. I’m just trying to sell for a widow so I’m just gonna put a $600 price tag on it and hope for the best
     

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