Carleton 267

Geoff Harvey

Curious about Wooden Canoes
I am possession of a Carlton Canoe with a serial number 267 on the stem. Does a record of this canoe exist or were the records destroyed in 1911 fire? If no record is available is there any means of estimating the canoe's build year based on Carleton's production of wood and canvas canoes?
 
The short answer is no, there isn't enough information available about early Carleton canoes to estimate much. However, some information is available and some pictures of your canoe may help expand that resource. Can you provide pictures of the bow deck with any decal or tag, the serial numbers with the surrounding areas from both stems, and some showing the interior details? It is not unusual for a canoe with a three digit serial number to have hidden digits so the information at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/791/ may help. There are several different known styles of Carleton tags and decals so that may be your best way to estimate the build year. What else is known about this canoe?

Benson
 
A few pictures and some history that came along with the craft. Pictures are in the attached zip file. Both overview and close up pictures are provided to assist in any advice or source materials you might recommend. The previous owner obtained the craft from the "Old Town Seconds Showroom" in 1970. The story given to him was the damaged craft was brought in for repair by the then owner in the 1967. The owners balked at the $300 repair price and refused to take delivery on the canoe. It set in the seconds showroom for three years until purchased by Bill Dengler, then a ranger at Arcadia National Park. The only other distinguishing feature was when he bought the craft it was painted "aluminum" (if you can imagine), a condition Ranger Dengler soon remedied. As stated earlier the only serial number I can find using the techniques suggested is 267 on the stern stem and _67 on the bow stem, however the numerals 17 can be seen a fare distance back near the ends of both stems , indicating the length.

As for the photographs, the heart shaped decks and covered gunnels indicate a Carleton as do the fore and aft thwarts. The hand thwart that should be just aft of the bow deck is absent but filled holes suggest its former presence. The seats were obvious replacements for earlier seats and the center thwart appears added like the seats during the repairs noted above. The diamond Old Town bolts fastening the seats and center thwart are placed through the gunnel covers while the fore and aft appear to have the bolt heads under the covers. The features seem to me consistent with the previous owners recollections.

Based on this my questions are as follows: Would Old Town have record of repair and/or resale of this craft? Can you direct me to a reference where the proper carriage bolts for the seats might be described?
 

Attachments

  • Carleton 267 (17).zip
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Your zip file is empty as MGC mentioned and pictures would be a great help. I've not found any mention of a canoe with serial number 267 in the Carleton or Old Town repair records. This is not unusual if no repairs were made at the factory, the owner abandoned the canoe, and it was simply resold as you described. Many other builders made canoes with heart shaped decks, carry thwarts, and closed gunwales so it may not be a Carleton. It may also be difficult to determine which features are original and what are the result of a previous repair. Aluminum was a popular canoe color in the 1940s. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/13126/ and http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/15606/ for some examples of the fin-head, fin-neck, and bent over bolts that commonly appear under the closed gunwales on canoes.

Benson
 
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Thanks for the reply. Don't know what happened to tye compressed file.
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Pictures attached
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The planking pattern and quarter thwarts seem like a Charles River area builder. They didn't commonly use tapered ribs though. This canoe doesn't have rails running past the stems which was common on many of the early Maine builders including Carleton. Can you provide pictures of the bow deck and the serial number from the other end? Does the bow deck have any sign of a decal or nail holes from a tag? Do the quarter thwarts have any sign of a Robertson stamp like the one at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/27276/ on top along the rails? See https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/13248/ for some pictures of a Robertson with heart shaped decks. It is an interesting old canoe but there are hundreds of builders listed at http://wcha.org/catalogs/maine-list.htm in Maine, http://wcha.org/catalogs/mass-list.htm in Massachusetts, and other areas who might have made it.

Benson
 
The stem is also characteristic of (at least some) Charles River-area bulders - the chamfered upper edges and the clipped sides at the end of the stem.

Michael
 
I was able to identify this craft as a J.R. Robertson #267 with no additional number between this number and the 17 at the end of the stem. Attached is the best photo I can develop of the stamp on the quarter thwart without intrusively disturbing the patina, a measure I do not want to take. I have tried all the non-intrusive methods suggested and a few additional, but the varnish layers are simply too thick. I have one additional question. What is the wood of the gunnel caps? I plan to restore the craft by removing the Old Town features added during the late sixties repair. This will include wood plugs to cover the holes left in the gunnel caps.
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Hi Geoff,

I'm a preservationist at heart, so I appreciate your interest in returning the canoe to its original configuration and keeping it as original as possible. That said, canoes were meant to be used. Yours was and you'd might really enjoy having it back on the water again. The most important thing with wooden boats is protecting the structure from the harms that can be caused by water, and varnish is the most important protection. Because your canoe has been used and because it is not an especially rare type (among wooden canoes), you might consider a fuller restoration than simply removing the more modern seats and filling the holes in the gunwale caps.

Depending on where you're located, you might be able to meet with other WCHA members who restore or who own restored canoes to see what you'd be in for (and if you haven't already, please consider becoming a member yourself! http://wcha.org/membership). You might also try to attend a regional WCHA gathering or the WCHA's Annual Assembly in the Adirondacks next July where you'll see many wonderful canoes and meet fascinating people. By meeting with others and seeing their canoes you may be impressed by the number and variety of old wooden canoes out there and by the possibilities of restoring your canoe. Your Robertson would be stunning with a good restoration. Doing it well will preserve the patina of the aged wood while bringing out its beauty. Its thwarts and probably its decks also are birdseye maple which will be gorgeous if cleaned up and refinished with traditional varnish. Your canoe's original seat frames also may have been made from birdseye maple; in any case new ones made of this beautiful wood would be appropriate. Skilled woodworkers with knowledge of Robertson canoes could help you replicate seats frames using originals as patterns.

As is often said in these forums, your canoe is yours and you should do with it what makes you happy. Meeting others in the wooden canoe world and seeing the possibilities may help you make decisions that will give you even more satisfaction. This canoe looks to me like a great candidate for estoration, but there's nothing wrong with preserving it as is.

Michael
 
It is a shame someone replaced the seats like that. If you need some photos and dimensions for Robertson seats, let me know.

Cheers,

Fitz
 
The seats were evidently replaced by the Old Town Factory during repairs made in the late 1960s. The diamond bolts and center thwart I believe have this origin as well. I plan to replace all these features so would very much appreciate photographs and dimensions of J.R. Robertson seats.
 
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