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Canvas filler

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Michaux Hiker, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. 1905Gerrish

    1905Gerrish LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Dave,
    Seems you now realize how much work this is. This is the exact reason a quality fill job could save you time. This step is generally not needed much. I'd say a hour of sanding is all I do after the filler has dried. Next time you fill. Go back a day later and rub smooth again and fill more if required. Possibly let it dry another day and go back again to rub smooth and fill more if required. I wish someone would have gave me this advice years ago but I learned the hard way like you are experiencing. Also, all fillers are not the same. I use a 60's OT recipe and add mildew treatment.
    Zack
     
  2. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    And remember,
    1- everything you put on adds weight, and
    2- the canvas is a maintenance item, to be replaced at some point down the road, the paint is temporary.

    Dan
     
    MGC likes this.
  3. OP
    OP
    Michaux Hiker

    Michaux Hiker Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Tomorrow I am going to order paint from Kirby Paint. What do most of you guys use-low lustre, semi-gloss or gloss? Inside is gloss then finished with satin.
     
  4. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    If you order from Kirby, know that the gloss paint is not very glossy and semi gloss is nearly flat.
    Also, in my experience Kirby paint needs manipulation to get the best flow from it. Expect to see some brush marks.
    Penetrol or Kirby Brushing Additive help, but I’ve found that adding Epifanes Varnish works the best for getting flow and minimizing brush marks. Also adds a bit of gloss. Nothing flows like Epifanes....!
    Not trying to slam George’s paint. Great color selection, custom colors available, great customer service. Just letting you know my experience with it.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Michaux Hiker

    Michaux Hiker Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    I only have enough Epifanes Varnish for the outside gunwales. Would the Epifanes Brush Thinner work just as well? Have a about a quart left of that. My thought was to put two primer coats on and two finish coats with sanding between all coats. George said two quarts each should cover it.
     
  6. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Two quarts are enough to cover the canoe. You’ll probably have some left for touch up down the line.
    I’m not sure about Epifanes Brush Thinner in Kirby. I suppose it would be fine. You could try it.
    I’ve tried Penetrol and Kirby thinner in Kirby Paint, but still couldn’t get past the brush marks. That’s why I added Epifanes Varnish.
    You will never have brush marks with Epifanes, so I thought to add it to Kirby and it does seem to help the brush marks to lay down some.
     
  7. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    Interesting to hear about mixing Epifanes in with the Kirby. I don't know how you could paint just two coats with Kirby? Because it is so hard to use (at least my experience) I have found myself doing at least 6 thinned coats in order to get it to lay smooth. The challenge I had doing thicker coats is that it wanted to dry before I could tip it in.. It was leaving little bubbles as I was rolling it on. I was only able to eliminate the bubbles by thinning it way down. The paint I used was a semi-gloss...perhaps the gloss is easier to apply.
     
  8. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Agree with Mike on the number of coats. Personally I do 4-5 coats of color over primer, sanding between.
    I’ve seen a lot of canoes that look like they only have two coats, and if that is what satisfies you, that’s fine.

    Yes, Mike. Epifanes in the paint. I was wracking my brain on how to get the paint to flow after adding copious amounts of Penetrol, to no avail. Epifanes came to mind because it flows out so well. Done it several times.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Michaux Hiker

    Michaux Hiker Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    That being said. I'll put more than two coats on if I can thin it down enough to brush on nicely. I find when painting or varnishing furniture multiple coats with sanding you get a much better finish, just takes twice as long.
     
  10. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Dave, as a pro, why are you not spraying?
     
  11. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Dan,
    I don’t know of any pros that spray.
    I’ve had thoughts of it on occasion, but don’t have a sprayer or spray booth.
    With good paint you don’t really need a sprayer imho.
    Dave
     
  12. David Satter

    David Satter LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I've been rolling/tipping and brushing for years. you don't have to worry about over spray and fans. Once you get good it goes very quickly. 90% of the time it's one coat primer and three coats paint over the standard filler. With that it should come out fine. Clean the brush out and your done. Actually I spin out my brushes in a five gallon bucket with holes in the bottom on top of another bucket with a hole in the lid. It all drains down and when the lower bucket is full I take it to recycling paint center.
     
  13. JClearwater

    JClearwater Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Dave,
    How much Epifanes Varnish do you add to a quart of Kirby paint? I'm getting ready to paint a canoe. I have lots of Epifanes and my Kirby order arrived the other day.

    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  14. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Jim,
    It depends on the can... lol. Seems like there is no set amount Usually start with 4-5 ounces and see how it flows. Add more as I go if needed.
    I think it’s probably good to get fully or near fully pigmented paint on the first coats because the varnish dilutes the pigment as you add.
     
  15. JClearwater

    JClearwater Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Thanks Dave. Sounds logical.
     
  16. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Sounds like an opportunity. I think I know of one that has both a booth and sprays.
    Would you take your car to a body shop that brushed on the final finish?

    "I’ve had thoughts of it on occasion, but don’t have a sprayer or spray booth."
     
  17. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Dan,
    If I was gonna set up for spraying I should have done it 13 years ago when I started this career full-time.
    I’m not working on cars, although the goal, though unattainable, is to get an automotive finish.


    I did have a friend at an auto body shop that sprayed and clear coated a canoe for me a long time ago. Looked great....
    Until the filler checked a couple of years later.
     
  18. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Yup, I know. Actually I was thinking more about getting the job done faster with less time involved then in great finish.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Michaux Hiker

    Michaux Hiker Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Wrinkles! How do I get rid of them! Moved canoe from the front porch to the garage and put the first coat of primer on and notice the wrinkles setting in. Temp's are cooler now then when I canvased and applied filler.
     
  20. Just1moredave

    Just1moredave Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    I had wrinkles on the bottom that showed up after a temperature swing, a couple of weeks after applying filler. I started over with new canvas. The only thing I changed was stretching the canvas much more the second time. It's impossible to tell whether that was the real cause, or I did something else better on the second try. If the wrinkles are in a spot where you can stretch the canvas tighter, I'd try that.

    [​IMG]IMGC5341 by Dave, on Flickr
     

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