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A couple canvas fill questions

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Scott Rowe, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Scott Rowe

    Scott Rowe Random Adventurer

    About a month ago I went to a local boat builder and he guided my son and I through the canvasing of my ongoing Morris project. When we picked it up it had a few wrinkles that were disheartening but Pat assured me they would disappear. In fact just leaving the boat outside a few days some wrinkles did disappear. I searched this forum for wrinkle issues and decided to use the hot water treatment on the inside of the hull to remove the last wrinkles. This seemed to help but I noticed when I turned the boat over that water has seeped through the canvas in a couple spots! The hull should have been waterproof by this time.

    1. So first question is will the pre-kote I plan to use fix this issue or should I use something else on the trouble spots.

    2. Second question is regarding canvas smiles at the decks. My Morris has fine outwales at the deck area and I'm worried the outwales will not cover these small puckers. Should I pull the staples and move them higher onto the inwales (or small tacks)? Or use a fairing compound or spot putty on them.

    In the pictures you can see a lighter shade of gray on the hull where we added thinner to the filler. It's in this area where you can actually see a tobacco colored stain where water seeped through. Also, I've included a couple pictures of the smiles at the deck area.

    Thanks for any advice, this forum has been invaluable in getting me to this point of my restoration.

  2. mccloud

    mccloud Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Since nobody picked up on this before, I'll chime in. In my experience it has been common to see little puckers in the canvas near staples like your photos show. Of course you will still be trimming off excess canvas, so that look may change. If the pucker will be covered by the outwale, leave it alone. But it is not unusual to pull a few staples and even out the canvas if there are several puckers in a row.
    As to your concern about leakage - filler is essentially paint, and primer is essentially paint, and then you will give it a couple coats, at least, of paint. All these layers combine to waterproof the outside of the canvas. If I had your problem, I would sand the filler smooth, then give it a coat or two of high fill primer, with sanding, to prepare the hull for its final paint job. Tom McCloud
  3. OP
    Scott Rowe

    Scott Rowe Random Adventurer

    Thanks Tom, I'll let the primer do it thing. I think I will pull the staples (probably only 4 total) just under the deck area as I do not believe the fine ends of the outwale will cover these smiles/puckers. I may use some tacks to replace the staples and place them higher up the sheer onto the inwale so the outwale will cover them.
  4. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile preference would have been to remove the wrinkles before filling. Unless you were not able to stretch and pull the canvas taught it should have been smooth when you started to fill it. I have had problems with folds in the canvas...a canvas left in a shipping box can end up with fold lines...for these I have found that stretching and re-stretching generally make them vanish. If you have issues with pucker after you've filled it is (as noted by Tom) a common practice is to pull a few tacks and re-tack in the few places where it's required.
    You don't mention how long your filler cured before you poured water in it...the filler (the one I use) should sit for at least 6 plus weeks before you try anything with it...and longer is better. Not to jinks you, I'd be very concerned that the wrinkles that you made go away with water will return again after the hull is wet again...Good luck and let us know the result.
  5. OP
    Scott Rowe

    Scott Rowe Random Adventurer

    MGC, the canvas was wrinkle free before canvasing (except for smiles of course). It did sit overnight on the canoe before filling with filler. The canvas had cured for 4 weeks in a very dry (20% RH) shop, as we speak this would be five weeks. At this point the wrinkles are very subtle; if you tap on the area you can feel the canvas not sitting tight to the hull especially on one side of the bow. Good to know that I can re-stretch if it comes to that. Definately gonna relocated deck staples as my outwale at this area is pinky finger thick and I'm sure the smiles/puckers will sit just below it and really annoy me. I know I've made rookie mistakes in this restoration/rescue so I tend to obsess over these details, hoping that if I like the result I may do another someday and that it won't take six years!
  6. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    The chance to re-stretch came and went with the filling. You may remove some of the puckers near your staples but what you describe as wrinkles with a hollow area beneath....those are there for the duration... Likely you did not have it stretched enough. I think we have a natural tendency to try and be too careful about how tightly we stretch when in reality, it can and should be quite tight. Let er sit a few more weeks before you get frisky with it. At 4 weeks it should still be bleeding oils and drier...
  7. Gary Willoughby

    Gary Willoughby Boat Builder

    I don't understand why water would leak out, this seems like water would leak in. What did you use for filler ?
  8. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    I just noticed that there is a related thread from Scott where he mentions that he used West Hollow filler... he also mentions that the filler started to get thick while they were filling the canvas and that they added thinner to it in the areas where he says that it leaked...
    There are a couple things going on here....first, because of the wrinkles he added water to the inside of the hull to try and take the wrinkles out... he did that before the filler was cured. He notes that it did help with the wrinkles but that the water leaked out of the hull... that's part two of the problem. The hull leaked in the places where the filler was thinned...where the filler probably did not properly fill the canvas. The obvious "fix" was to go back over those areas with a bit more filler and hope for the best. However, since it's pretty well cured at this point it's probably too late to do anything but hope that paint will seal it. How "tough" the canvas is in those places is anyone's guess at this point..the filler may be too thin to properly protect the canvas.
    In one of those strange plot twists, it happens that I have previously used Pat's seems to be pretty good stuff..not a crazy recipe. My experience was that it took about 8 weeks to properly harden up. I didn't have issues with it being too thick. I always keep stirring as I go. Pat mixes about the right amount for a 16 footer in a gallon. If Scott's boat is a 17 perhaps there simply wasn't enough? Regardless, adding water inside a filled canvas before it's cured is an interesting twist. I'd be inclined to let it sit quite a bit longer before trying to paint it...maybe another month.
  9. OP
    Scott Rowe

    Scott Rowe Random Adventurer

    Yes, I think it was a mixing problem. It suddenly got real thick (during our second coat) probably because as we approached the bottom third of the pail it was ...thick. We then added thinner and you see the results. I rubbed in some old pre-kote I was given on these "leaky" areas. Went in/on nicely. I am waiting a bit before I play with it anymore. I suppose had I not tried the hot water treatment I wouldn't have discovered these suspect areas. Maybe we should all fill our boats with water! lol
  10. thechief

    thechief Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    I just posted a question and then thought I'd try here. I canvased and filled the hull in an unheated garage. Perfect until 4 weeks later when I added the sponsons and filled them. Perfect again until the next day. I have 2 air pockets where fresh filler went over dryer filler and each end between the sponson end and the end of the canoe. If I hold a hair dryer over those spots they shrink but come back once I turn off the hair dryer. I am in NJ the weather is 50 1 day 30 the next. Should I be concerned once it's warm I'll put it outside in the sun
  11. OP
    Scott Rowe

    Scott Rowe Random Adventurer

    I was playing the temperature weather game too on my project. I have a little more than zero experience with only one nearly completed project under my belt but initial impulse would be to give the recoated filler lots of time to cure. It seems like an area where shrinkage and expansion due to temperature or moisture ( as in fresh filler or paint) may cause canvas to react differently around area of a sponson that is fixed to the hull. But then I've never seen a sponson so what do I know. lol

    ps. not sure I'd force a cure with a hair dryer..
  12. thechief

    thechief Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks I'm inclined to agree with you. I only held the hair dryer there for a few minutes the results we instant and then it reappears. That gives me hope its a matter of waiting it out. My gut says wait it out too,what else can I do. Thanks
  13. rbudge

    rbudge Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Areas in the bows where the canvas does not touch the wood are a function of the shape of the canoe. Shouldn't be a problem.

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