I'm restoring a wood and canvas canoe with Sitka Spruce ribs. I'm going to be replacing quite a few of the rib tops. I haven't found a supply of Sitka spruce locally but the lumberyards are full of spruce planks that could easily be cut and shaped to fit. Would using regular spruce be a bad thing? If I have to replace any ribs completely, I'll definitely hunt down some Sitka Spruce.
Replacing Rib Tops
- Thread starter techrtr
- Start date
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
regular spruce... Northern White Spruce was the wood used in the past by most canoe builders.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I could find it in gunwale lengths. It was very available in long clear lengths many years ago. Since timbering has decimated old stands of northern white spruce, it's availability has been difficult, thus most of us have gone to Sitka spruce because long clear lengths are available.
If your lumber yard has long clear lengths of NWS...go for it.
Addendum:So that was my story for spruce on gunwales.... Guess I didn't read the original post well enough, because after re-reading it, you are talking about spruce for ribs... To that I say, as Lindy says, who ever used spruce for ribs?? Northern White Cedar is and has been the standard for ribs on wood canvas canoes.. Chances are, Tech, that your ribs are cedar.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I could find it in gunwale lengths. It was very available in long clear lengths many years ago. Since timbering has decimated old stands of northern white spruce, it's availability has been difficult, thus most of us have gone to Sitka spruce because long clear lengths are available.
If your lumber yard has long clear lengths of NWS...go for it.
Addendum:So that was my story for spruce on gunwales.... Guess I didn't read the original post well enough, because after re-reading it, you are talking about spruce for ribs... To that I say, as Lindy says, who ever used spruce for ribs?? Northern White Cedar is and has been the standard for ribs on wood canvas canoes.. Chances are, Tech, that your ribs are cedar.
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Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
tech,
what brand/maker uses spruce for ribs?
Dan
"wood and canvas canoe with Sitka Spruce ribs."
what brand/maker uses spruce for ribs?
Dan
"wood and canvas canoe with Sitka Spruce ribs."
Apparently, it was built by Vancouver canoe builder Mike Greenwood. He used Sitka Spruce ribs in his canoes. Here's a link to a little article about Greenwood if you're interested. https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/tag/greenwood-canoes/
Easternrivers
Traditionalist
Mike Elliot at Kettle River Canoes would be the best source of info for this one...
I believe Dave Lanthier, one of our Forum members, also has quite a bit of experience with Greenwood canoes.
Also be sure to check the website about Greenwood canoes put together by Susan Greenwood, daughter of Bill Greenwood. http://www.greenwoodcanoecompany.com
Also be sure to check the website about Greenwood canoes put together by Susan Greenwood, daughter of Bill Greenwood. http://www.greenwoodcanoecompany.com
The tops of many of the ribs on my 1937 OT are in rough shape cosmetically. The ribs are well and truly nailed with brass tacks to the inhales but will not look so good after the outwales are reinstalled as little bits and pieces are missing from the edges. The canoe has had lots of work done on it, recanvased at least twice, planking nicely patched in several places . Here is my plan: I am thinking of carefully sawing the top 1/4 inch off of each bad rib, at least half of them, and then glue in a 1/4 section of good looking rib to the top of the rib, flush with the top of the inhale. Structurally nothing will change because the ribs are all sound except for looks, and when I recanvas and install the outwales…
Just curious to see if anyone has ever done that or is it unethical, unsound, or ?
Oldad
Just curious to see if anyone has ever done that or is it unethical, unsound, or ?
Oldad
I read through the posts on rib repair. I have 66 ribs that need revitalization. I also have 3 ribs that need scarfing. The 66 ribs have varying degree of wear. The gunnels (inside & out) are long gone and need complete replacing.
How can I rebuild, restore the top 2" or less? I am not in favor of cutting down the ribs. The ribs have very little splitting. I have removed planking that was damaged and for the most part the nails came out OK for a rookie.
Suggestions - I have looked at a number of related posts but this is the closest I have come to a solution with your post.
Regards,
Greg
How can I rebuild, restore the top 2" or less? I am not in favor of cutting down the ribs. The ribs have very little splitting. I have removed planking that was damaged and for the most part the nails came out OK for a rookie.
Suggestions - I have looked at a number of related posts but this is the closest I have come to a solution with your post.
Regards,
Greg
H.E. Pennypacker
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Hi Greg - What exactly is the problem with your ribs? What do you mean that 66 of them "need revitalization" or that they "have varying degree of wear"? If they have very little splitting, then what's wrong? Is it rot? And is this an open gunwale or a closed-gunwale canoe? Photos would be a big help for people to offer you some guidance.
If the tops are just kind of spongy and rotten, don't a lot of people just use Git Rot to make them strong again. If the tops are rotted right off, seems like the only real solution is to cut the rotten wood away and splice a new piece. If it's done properly, it's hardly noticeable. This is what I'm going to do: https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/how-to-repair-rotted-rib-tops-in-a-wood-canvas-canoe/
Interesting that Mike Elliot uses Gorilla Glue to attach the rib tops. Cheap, readily available - if it works I'll definitely use it.
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
I do what Mike does in the link above, except I use a 18" belt sander to make the angle on the bad rib tip. To me, it is easier to get a nice long, flat angle with the flat surface of the belt sander.
The new mating piece is made and adjusted to fit on a tabletop belt sander, but can be done with a hand held belt sander as well. Before I had the 42" belt sander on the work bench I used the 18" belt sander clamped in a vise to make the new mating piece. I use G-Flex epoxy on the joint.
Simple and effective.
The new mating piece is made and adjusted to fit on a tabletop belt sander, but can be done with a hand held belt sander as well. Before I had the 42" belt sander on the work bench I used the 18" belt sander clamped in a vise to make the new mating piece. I use G-Flex epoxy on the joint.
Simple and effective.
Craig Johnson
Lifetime member
repairing rib tips
Even if a small part of the top is bad I still scarf a new piece on. I had some where the tops looked bad but the rib was sound. I started the scarf about 1/4" down from the inside top. I like to cut my scarfs from the inside top to the outside, that way less of the new wood shows. here is how I do it. I cut the scarf angle I want on a piece of hardwood. I jam that between the rib and inwale, lining up the vertex of the angle where I want to cut the rib, and clamp in place.Then I lay a pull saw on the angle and cut the rib. I use the same angle block to cut the new rib stock. Then I clamp the new piece to the inwale and glue the joint. Clamping to the inwale keeps the joint from slipping in the spring clamps. I like to shape the new top so that it is almost an exact match before I glue it on. I find that easier than having to remove a bunch of wood after it is glued on. Once you get comfortable with it it gets hard to decide how bad of a rib tip you are willing to accept
Have fun with your project. Keep us posted.
sorry I messed up the order of the photos
Even if a small part of the top is bad I still scarf a new piece on. I had some where the tops looked bad but the rib was sound. I started the scarf about 1/4" down from the inside top. I like to cut my scarfs from the inside top to the outside, that way less of the new wood shows. here is how I do it. I cut the scarf angle I want on a piece of hardwood. I jam that between the rib and inwale, lining up the vertex of the angle where I want to cut the rib, and clamp in place.Then I lay a pull saw on the angle and cut the rib. I use the same angle block to cut the new rib stock. Then I clamp the new piece to the inwale and glue the joint. Clamping to the inwale keeps the joint from slipping in the spring clamps. I like to shape the new top so that it is almost an exact match before I glue it on. I find that easier than having to remove a bunch of wood after it is glued on. Once you get comfortable with it it gets hard to decide how bad of a rib tip you are willing to accept
Have fun with your project. Keep us posted.sorry I messed up the order of the photos
Attachments
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Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
A couple comments/concerns I have concerning scarfing rib tips.
1) a structural joint should be something in the 8 to 10 to one, thickness to joint length - some of those scarfs look pretty short.
2) don't use polyurethane glue for structural joints. For poly to work, the joint has to be perfect, hard to do. If there is ANY gap, poly expands to fill the gap, except when it expands, it expands as a foam, not very strong.
Dan
1) a structural joint should be something in the 8 to 10 to one, thickness to joint length - some of those scarfs look pretty short.
2) don't use polyurethane glue for structural joints. For poly to work, the joint has to be perfect, hard to do. If there is ANY gap, poly expands to fill the gap, except when it expands, it expands as a foam, not very strong.
Dan
